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OP served with a Cease and Desist. OP ceases and OP desists

OP served with a Cease and Desist. OP ceases and OP desists

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24 Comments


  1. HEONTHETOILET

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Oh man…

    > I admit I came here looking for validation, not help.

    #FINALLY SOMEONE FUCKING ADMITS IT

    Reply

  2. doityaselfcunt

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Too often these stories end badly. It’s good to see one end well.

    If you read this OP:- congratulations – you should be proud.

    Reply

  3. redpandapaw

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    So remember that askreddit thread that asked rapists why they did it an [a psychologist said how dangerous that thread was](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/xf5c2/reddit_are_you_aware_how_dangerous_the_askarapist/)? Yeah, that is what this is now for OP.

    The program OP is likely involved with is probably [Emerge](http://www.emergedv.com/) or an affiliate program. One of the coordinators of that program, Lundy Bancroft, wrote a book on domestic violence called “Why Does He Do That?” and in it he details how the Emerge program used to take its best performing participants and brought them to talks to explain what they learned and how they changed by participating in the program. Real motivational stuff, just like OP’s post.

    The problem was that these men would start feeling validated. They started beating and abusing their significant others again. It actually made them backslide and they had to stop the talks.

    OP, I am glad you realize that a part of you is monstrous. I am glad you have taken steps to address your problems. But I ask you **please tread lightly** with what you are doing and the response you are getting here. You are not fixed. You didn’t do a great job, you did what a decent person should do when they realize they have a problem. I hope that you disclose that you have posed on reddit to your therapists.

    Edit: added links, grammar

    Edit 2: Thank you to whoever gilded me, I never thought that would happen. To those wishing to learn more I highly recommend reading the book. Hell, everyone should read that book.

    Edit 3: The book again is “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. If you haven’t already, sign up for Overdrive through your library account. That is how I read it for free, and a crapton of other books.

    Reply

  4. DiabloConQueso

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    OP, the best people in life aren’t the ones that act like perfect citizens all the time, but rather the people that have the power to identify issues, be critical of themselves, look at things from different perspectives, and in turn make changes for the better.

    You’re firmly in the latter camp. Kudos to you.

    Reply

  5. derspiny

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Everything went better than expected 😌

    Reply

  6. kf_87

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    This is amazing. I never thought I’d see a niceguy have a genuine, actual, thoughtful, empathetic 180. I’m so pleasantly surprised.

    Reply

  7. jrussell424

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    It be great if /r/niceguys saw this too. It’s awesome to see a niceguy who is able to accept that his thinking is flawed, and work hard to fix it. Good job op! Keep at it!

    Reply

  8. CumaeanSibyl

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I’m most impressed by his repeated statements that he scared and hurt her. It’s not easy for any of us to admit we hurt someone, but it’s especially hard for people with that entitled/obsessive mindset.

    That he’s taking a class for abusers without trying to distance himself from them is also a good sign. He could easily say “I’m not like those people, I never hit anyone,” but the only real difference is that most of them are court-ordered and he’s not. It all comes from the same place of thinking you have the right to dictate others’ actions, and he really seems to get that.

    Good on whoever’s teaching that class for advising against apologies to victims who’ve cut off contact. Nothing is more important than teaching abusive people to respect others’ wishes and choices.

    Reply

  9. radialomens

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Huh. When I saw the original posts I was convinced he was a troll. Of course I know there are people like this but it just seemed too on the nose.

    This is not the follow up I expected. I suppose it still could be false but I hope this was actually a process of reflection and self-improvement. Glad the OP got help.

    Reply

  10. PM_ME_YOUR_KIDS_SSN

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Hey OP, if memory serves me right I might have given you some shit in a linked thread. I just want to say that I’m really really glad that you’ve been following the course and getting help. I don’t think you’re a monster at all and updates like this will help other people recognize their own behavior and get the help they need. Good work and good luck!

    Reply

  11. Zewsey

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I’m skeptical. This guy sounds a lot like my violent ex who was facing life in prison and was looking for a way to make himself look like he became a better person through counseling. He wrote long Facebook posts very similar to this admitting his faults (but not the act that got him arrested). During all this he continued to stalk me, was caught and had new charges filed. He did six years in prison.

    I hope OP is sincere and not posting all this to lesson charges like my ex. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this comment, but I’ve lived it and know how violent people are also very good at manipulation.

    Reply

  12. D3PO

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Yeah dude, its good you are making an effort but i don’t buy it and here is why. I used to be just like you. Man to man here, lets forget its the Internet.

    You said all the logical stuff you learned AND displayed the effort you made. Thats good but you and i know that this its deep emotional shit thats the issue. You are seeking validation again for your change, and you say the right stuff to make people pat you on the back. Like i said, i done every little bit of this.

    I used to obsess over women the same way. It was like a dopamin drug to constantly look at their social media, and somehow i convinced myself that in some twisted romantic way we would end up together. Not believe, certain. Mind you, this could be a girl that just friendly small-talked me for 5 min. I could barley function in my life because i was so “in love” obsessed. I slept like shit, didn’t want to hang out with friends, I EVEN MOVED TO DIFFERENT CITIES just like you! I did it because i knew i needed to become a different person.. and if my absence made her/them miss me it wouldn’t hurt. I never went as far as you with the contact, but there is no doubt in my mind that i would have had 5 cease and desist letters if i ever did that.

    I recognize your post and sentences as stuff i would say to myself. You are trying to come of as a different person and find reasons to justify why your emotional state made you act crazy. Its retrofitting. I had a fucked up childhood that made me that way.. its not an excuse but for me, women that showed interest in me was unconsciously a life and death situation. It was validation, security and healing that i desperately needed. I could not function like a regular guy, because i wasn’t one. I was a rescue dog.

    My man, you are not done. Your emotional wired in a way which makes you do dumb shit. That is not easy to change. Last date that didnt work out for me.. i thought about her maybe for a year afterwards. Never made contact or checked her social media. I just have just come to accept that small cuts for regular guys, will bleed me out more. I am more sensitive to people coming in and out of my life.

    However… just like people that have nut allergies. You have to manage how you live. Dont put yourself in situations were someone can play with your feelings. Dont get super personal with girls that wants validation, and dont read anything into their behavior. Assume that they aren’t into you. People say, dont build walls or armor on your emotion. Not for you and i my friend. HAVE A THICK ASS ARMOR and dont let anyone through. I cant handle the fun-and-games-flirtation people do, because of my background. I dont think your mind is cut out for that either.

    When my real feelings starts to show, so does all my scars and all the bagage i have. I manage it thousand times better nowadays, but its still there. The right/wrong girl can come and deal a fatal blow if i am not careful. Suddenly i am 5 years old again dealing with this shit.

    Accept the way you are. Otherwise you are gonna blame yourself for years and years.. “I did all these stuff.. and i am still thinking crazy. Whats wrong with me?” You are different. You can change your demeanour and learn how to act better. Show class and never again act as loser when someone dumps you. Thats external stuff thats vital for you.

    The internal stuff is fucked. Thats ok, it really is. Some guys kill themselves over relationships, or worse.. hurt others in the process.
    Being a man can be a lonely and cold experience around women. A little bit warmth can really mess with some people. You just got shaken badly and acted foolish.. no harm in that. She will recover.
    I fear you will have some rough years ahead of you emotionally and that is just how the process goes.

    You need to replace the void you think a romantic life will give you, with something else. Fill your life to the brim with stuff to do. School, training, hobbies, friends, maybe a business.. So when the day comes that you meet another women that sets of emoflies in your head, and dumps you. You have distractions already in place and do not need to move and try to rebuild yourself. Make a foundation in your own life that so much fun, that meeting women almost irritates you because it takes you away from the other stuff.
    Eventually you wont see women as some emotional healing drug anymore. You will have other hobbies doing that. Obsesses the shit of those things. Get validation from people saying “Thats amazing.” and giving you pride. Get self worth in other areas and screw the people saying its shallow. Many successful people are broken fuckers that has taken this route. Good luck and be honest with yourself.

    Reply

  13. ameliabedelia7

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I’m really glad this guy didn’t kill that girl, but I agree with other commentators that we need to chill on the congratulations.

    Reply

  14. LocationBot

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Title: [UPDATE] Had a falling out with the girl I love and got served a cease and desist order. What can I legally do? [Michigan] (x-post on r/relationships)

    Original Post:

    > Past post:
    >
    > https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/6ebbq9/had_a_falling_out_with_the_girl_i_love_and_got/?st=j7t8o97k&sh=7aebba6a
    >
    > Oh boy. I’ve been wondering for a while whether to post here again or not. I wasn’t going to, but I know my last post ended up on a few other subreddits and I actually stumbled across it on my main account on r/niceguys and I read all the comments there. It was rough for me to read this original post, but it was a reminder of what my own mindset, and the mindset of so many men like me, was. I decided I needed to post again for some closure. I would have posted this on r/relationships, but they don’t let you update posts they have taken down (yeah the mods there actually took down the post, not me).
    >
    > For those who didn’t see my original post on r/relationships before it was removed, it included more detail than my last one here, so I’m going to link to a thread from r/niceguys from a few people saved the text of my relationships post in the comments. I want to take full accountability for everything, so I want to link it here:
    >
    > https://www.reddit.com/r/niceguys/comments/6f696j/nice_guy_on_rlegaladvice_wants_to_know_his/?st=j7t8wz5j&sh=badbe0c6
    >
    > First, I want to assure everyone that I didn’t contact that girl ever again. Since I moved, I no longer see her or go anywhere by where she used to live, go to school, or work (I don’t know if she still lives in the same area or goes to the same school. I have avoided getting any information about her at all). The way I acted and the way I hurt her and scared her so much still haunts me. Part of me wants to track her down and apologize, but I know from my classes that 1. that can re-victimize her all over again; 2. it would be a selfish thing to do because it would be to clear my conscience, not make her feel better. If she wants to get closure by talking to me, I’m sure she can find me somehow; and 3. I don’t want to make the mistake of using an apology to make her feel manipulated to talking to me again. I learned in my classes that men do that a lot. I don’t want to hurt her anymore, so I will work past the guilt while never talking to her again.
    >
    > I was distraught after my last post here. I admit I came here looking for validation, not help. I had a warped sense of entitlement that led me to believe that no one would possibly disagree with me, but obviously, hundreds of people told me that I was fucked up, a predator, a stalker, and that I needed help. All of these people were right. I don’t know what happened, but something clicked in me after seeing those comments (despite how combative and abusive I was in response to the comments). I checked myself into therapy in Michigan the week after I posted here. I knew something was wrong, but I was still in denial. I thought I needed help with heartbreak. I didn’t recognize that I actually needed help with identifying and combatting my messed up belief systems that I used to justify stalking and victimizing that poor girl. After a few sessions, I started seeing a psychiatrist too. I got on mood stabilizers and I started to realize that something was very very wrong with the way I was acting. Something that couldn’t be cured by medication. After talking it over with my therapist, I decided it would be best for me to move out of state into my Aunt’s house. Within a month of me posting here, I had moved into her house.
    >
    > After moving, I started the process of transferring to a new school next semester, working full time, and continued to take my medication and was transferred to a new therapist. I had a fresh idea of the issues I wanted to work on in therapy, but after a few weeks of having two therapy sessions a week, my therapist pointed out to me during a session that I was still exhibiting the same kind of obsessive behaviors over women that earned me a cease and desist letter in Michigan (though I wasn’t stalking anyone at this point, I was just obsessing in my mind. Which is still bad, but I wasn’t actively victimizing anyone). I realize that in addition to therapy, I needed more help. My therapist pointed me to a class run by a local agency that was designed for men that have committed violent crimes against women like domestic violence, assault, sexual assault, stalking ect. Most of the men in the class are court-ordered to go as a condition of their probation/parole, but you didn’t have to be court ordered to go, so I signed up voluntarily. I attend a two-hour class session every week and have been attending for about a month now. The goal of the class is to help us recognize and change abusive/violent behaviors. I know most of you are thinking: what kind of monsters can’t recognize violent behavior? People like me. People like me in the last post. I look like a normal person. I grew up in an upper-middle-class neighborhood. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes and I fooled myself by saying because I didn’t “look” like an abuser or because I wasn’t “like” the abusers I saw on TV, that I wasn’t one. But I am. I can’t take back what I’ve done, but I can promise myself I will never victimize anyone else again.
    >
    > In conclusion, a lot had changed for me in three and a half months. I want to say that I do not blame my behavior on my mental illness or anger or the media or whatever. I made a conscious decision to stalk and terrorize another human being because I thought I had the right to dictate how others interact with me. The class is a year-long class and I have only been in it for a month, but I have already learned so much. I have learned from my group that abuse is always a conscious choice and a learned behavior. But I believe that since I’ve learned this behavior and it’s voluntary, it’s totally within my control to change it. I’ve also learned from my group about the importance of having a non-romantic support system, so I made some male and female friends at work that invite me over to play video games with them. Don’t worry reddit, these are actual friends and not just people I am stalking or believe I am in love with (I talked about this extensively with my therapist and try to be cognizant of my obsessive tendencies).
    >
    > Thank you to everyone who told it to me straight and I’m sorry for how I decided to treat everyone who was just trying to give me the advice I asked for.
    >
    > **tl;dr**: I ceased, I desisted, and I got mental health help. Thanks to everyone.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    LocationBot 4.0 | GitHub (Coming Soon) | [Statistics](https://locationbot.info) | [Report Issues](https://www.reddit.com/r/locationbot)

    Reply

  15. bobekDev

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I will be the negative one here but OP seem to seek validation and pat on his back, if he posted this after the year long course I would be inclined to believe he is getting better, not after one month.

    Reply

  16. Dreamshadow1977

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    This is good to hear. Taking responsibility for one’s actions is huge. I know I’d have trouble staying away because I’d want to apologize.

    Reply

  17. TeoshenEM

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    That’s really big of OP to own his past behavior and move forward in a positive manner, and to let us know about that. Serious props, man.

    Reply

  18. techiebabe

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    OP, good for you to tackle this, and thank you for posting the update. I’m glad it was a happy one (so far, but what I mean is it’s something I’m happy to read).

    [I’m hoping your post is a genuine admission rather than a token compliance with the 12 steps stage of making amends, and that you truly mean it rather than are doing it so you are seen to “do the right thing” by a counsellor or probation scheme or something.] If that sounds harsh then I guess it is evidence of how frightening your original post was, and how I’m worried that “being seen to be better” when you haven’t genuinely changed could open doors to people trusting you again and being hurt… So, I’m sorry if that is unfair. The rest of this comment is trusting you are genuine ☺️

    It takes a hell of a lot to say you were wrong, so a huge and serious well done. Also, it takes a lot to admit to mental health issues – it shouldn’t, but it does. This is something you may always have to watch yourself for, to have trusted friends who can let you know if you’re slipping, to continue counselling even once you think you’re well again. And that’s hard, and I’m sorry.

    But as a woman who has previously been raped by someone at uni who was obsessed by her, someone who was initially a casual but fun friend, thank you for not putting the object of your desires through what I had. While I’d say I’m “fine” in that regard, 25 years later, I’m clearly still affected enough to recall it. And decisions like having to change where I lived affected my finances, relationships and future for many years. I’m not prepared to say more here and now, but I hope you will accept that my thanks are genuine and not given lightly.

    Well done for backing off and accepting that you did need help. Best of luck for the future.

    Reply

  19. Rookvrouw_Joke

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I don’t mean to be negative, but something felt very off to me reading his update and I think someone needs to pin [the comment of u/redpandapaw](https://www.reddit.com/r/bestoflegaladvice/comments/71ckho/op_served_with_a_cease_and_desist_op_ceases_and/dn9vju6/).

    I’m worried for the next update, if there is one. I really hope OP is successful but I think with all the positive reinforcement *ESPECIALLY WHEN HE’S SAYING PART OF HIM STILL WANTS TO TRACK HER DOWN AND MAKE THINGS RIGHT WITH HER* it may really hurt OP. Not only do I think this reddit attention seeking will put him back where he was, but I think he might not have even improved.

    He’s literally still calling himself a niceguy. That’s not what a “niceguy” is, he’s a bloody stalker.

    Reply

  20. verycaroline

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    It actually doesn’t take all that much to say you were wrong, anonymously, on the internet.

    I hope the OP tells his therapist about this post. And I hope he really believes the things he’s saying now vs. then.

    I may be going against the grain of the rest of these comments and I have no problem doing so.

    OP, keep up going to treatment and therapy. Good that you started.

    Reply

  21. Unsolicited_Spiders

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    OP gives me hope in a frightening world.

    Reply

  22. sivad0313

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I don’t like how much praise OP is getting in this thread. He still stalked this young woman. He still causes harm. Yeah, he’s since stoped. That’s a good thing but it’s fucking basic human decency. Men get a fucking medal for not stalking and harassing a woman. Nothing new here I guess.

    Reply

  23. cmd102

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

    I used to work for an agency that did the office and organizational work for the type of class OP attends. We got the guys enrolled, assigned to a class, noted payments (and notified them when they fell behind on payments), kept track of their attendance, etc.

    The entire time I worked there, we had ONE client who was going voluntarily. Everyone else was court ordered. Probably 75% of the guys I spoke to that had attended classes were still adamant that they didn’t need to be there, had bad attitudes, and were uncooperative in general. Half or more of that 75% would wind up in the classes again after “graduating” (or in jail).

    What I’m saying is: the level of work OP put into changing is remarkable in itself, but the fact that the class is *helping* and that he seems to be taking it to heart just makes me so happy. OP is an example of what those classes strive to achieve, and I’m proud of him for his efforts and success (past, present, and future). Keep it up, dude.

    Reply

  24. Anonymous

    September 21, 2017 at 6:55 am

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